about planning

[Bats]

Wassup to all the pros and old timers out there, I would like to ask some questions about planning.

1) When I was in both footstraps and planning, I tried to let go of both hands and maintain control and the position of the sail using only my bodyweight through the harness. I was unsuccessful of course. I heard it is possible to do this if you manage to position the harness lines in your optimum position. So what is the correct way to go about finding this optimum placing?

2) I sail a formula board(170L) with a 8.9m sail. I have no problem planning in footstraps and travelling beam reach when the wind is strong. However when the wind isn't strong enough and I am forced to point downwind or broadreach, I am unable to point the board by using foot pressure or harness weight. Instead I have to move the mast slightly forward to point the board downwind. I know this is not the correct way.. so what is?? I mean, how do you steer using foot pressure??

3) When I see the pros and oldtimers planning, their masts are always raked back and the bottom of the sail almost or already touching the board. I am unable to achieve this leh. Is this position the result of just hiking out all the way and the sail/mast will automatically move into this position??
When I attempt to move the mast back when planning in order to achieve the sail/mast position, I inevitably point upwind and end up losing power...

Really appreciate anyone who takes the time to read and answer this post..

'All bummed out in school'

[Bats]

Help? Anyone?

[taongbundok]

i will answer your questions as a beginner myself:

1.  the optimum position for the harness line will be the point where your front and back hand exerts minimal force when holding the boom. when you are planing and you feel that your back hand is pulling harder, your line is too far forward, if you feel that in your front hand your line is too far behind.  It is difficult to let go both of your hands because you need a little bit of correction every now and then to control the sail.  If you're using minimal force for control then you achieve the optimimum position.

2.  When the wind isn't strong enough, i think you are doing the correct thing.

3. there is no way you can rake back the sail if you dont have the speed, if you rake back to early just like what you said, you will lose power and point upwind.  Gather speed first while planing and you will feel that the most natural position of the sail will be on the rake back position.

pros correct me if im wrong on my observations.

[<Info for Bats>]

Hi Bats, here is my tips to you. Nothing scientific or professional just a regular weekend sailor.

1) No advanced technique here, try and error. When you let you hands off the boom where did you felt the pressure? Did the rig fall forward or back? If forward then move your lines forward (1 or 2 cm max), repeat until the rig stays upright longer. Due to the inconstant nature it is kind of difficult to really stay hands-off for minutes but you can feel the right balance once you find it. Do the opposite if the rig falls back.

2)Are you planning in light winds? If you can do it in stronger winds it should not be a big of a problem. Pressure the front foot toes. It you are not planning you will have to rig steer.

3) This is what is called "closing the gap", when I was progressing I was always focusing on that and couldn't improve my stance. Forget about it, just focus in getting the harness lines posioned right and get the right stance, the rig will follow. Check the Technique guide in this site, the best one on the subject.

I hope it helps.

[Bats]

quote:Originally posted by <Info for Bats>:


2)Are you planning in light winds? If you can do it in stronger winds it should not be a big of a problem. Pressure the front foot toes. It you are not planning you will have to rig steer.

Hey guys, thanks for the replies!! Much appreciated I assure you.

Info for bats: I can plan in stronger winds no problem. The problem is, I can only point upwind and beamreach while planning. I have tried to 'pressure the front foot toes', but my board doesn't seem to respond!

After looking at alot of those 'oh so chio' pictures of pro windsurfing (refer to below picture)... is it true that to point downwind or broadreach, i have to straighten the front leg and slightly bend the back leg?

   

Thanks

'All bummed out in school'

[Meng]

hey bats,

if u r planning to improve on formula, do check out some of the local Formula guys stances either from PA or Pasta.
u may find your answers from there.
dun worry, they will be more glad to share tips with u.

happy sailing

[P.J.]

On the photo I think Kev is doing a powerup beam reach not broad reach. Most people have problem going upwind , if you can overcome that you are OK . Tried to balance the rig on the harness with no fornt or back hand pull. The rest will come naturally if you spent more TOW.

I agree that the " Improve Yr Stance" under technique really helps.

[Bats]

quote:Originally posted by H2O:
On the photo I think Kev is doing a powerup beam reach not broad reach. Most people have problem going upwind , if you can overcome that you are OK . Tried to balance the rig on the harness with no fornt or back hand pull. The rest will come naturally if you spent more TOW.

I agree that the " Improve Yr Stance" under technique really helps.

Hey H2O, what do you mean by powerup beam reach? Actually, believe it or not, I have no problems going upwind or beamreach while planning. But like I mentioned above, I find it difficult to point deep broadreach and downwind while planning

The technique section on this website is excellent. Learnt my stance here! But I cannot find any techniques on how to point.

I know this maybe asking for too much, but can someone help a newbie out here on the 'How and Where and When' of foot pressure and positions??

Many thanks

'All Bummed out in School'

[<RickyBRA>]

Hi Bats,

I´m not a regular FW sailor but I own a HS133 which is close regarding sailing.

-Letting go the hands while sailing is a lot easier when going a bit downwind.

-I´m not sure footsteering a FW is that easy due to its width. On my HS is OK but it requires a lot of leg strength compared to other less wide boards.

-Going upwind: I pretty much have both legs straight and I have the body leaning forward. Important details are to pull front toes against the strap and the rear ones against the hull to try and keep it flat on the water.

-Other points of sailing are a mix of bending the rear leg and leaning the body more toward the back of the board till you find the direction you want to go.Also you don´t need to pull the front straps but keeping the board flat with your back foot is a good idea.

-Important thing is to have you harness lines as far back on the boom as you find confortable. It does make a lot of difference as it does having the boom set high.I´d say from chin level and above. If you boom is not high enough you´ll never close the sail x hull gap.

-Also important is how your mast extention is set to rig the sail. Have the pulleys as close as possible to the extention hub or you won´t close that gap.

Those are my two cents. Hopefully of some help.

Good winds

[Chris Newman]

Hey Bats,

Can you do a hand drag?

Try the back one first, taking the front hand off is more scary. This will build you rig balance, and help you understand harness lines.

Practise absurdly wrong harness lines ashore...(simultaing the harness hook with your finger)adjust until you find the sweet spot (either side of the Center of Efort)

Dont be afraid to try and push on that big fin once you get going and dont forget to SHEET IN!

Practise lifting your heels if you luffing up. Imagine a tangerine under your heel. this help keep your weight near the centreline and off the rails.                        
 

See you at Amslam

[<Going Mana Mana>]

Hi there Chris,

Do you have a private email I can send to?
Got some questions regarding accomodation
at Mana Mana  

Cheers!
Calvin

[P.J.]

Bats

Are you Nick's friend ? Will be back this weekend . Will try to share what we know about going downwind. See you at the club.

[Bats]

Hey H20, I'm not Nick's friend. Was at the club today.. what a bummer, not a whisper of the Sea Dragon King..

I won't be there this weekend. Hope the winds are good for you!

Pray for wind

'All bummed out in school'

[<pete>]

Hi Bats

Also very important is a balanced sail. If your CE is moving all around then you will find it impossible to let go, -  "look ma, no hands" - splash.

Cheers

pete

[sukhdev]

Wassup to all the pros and old timers out there, I would like to ask some questions about planning.

1) When I was in both footstraps and planning, I tried to let go of both hands and maintain control and the position of the sail using only my bodyweight through the harness. I was unsuccessful of course. I heard it is possible to do this if you manage to position the harness lines in your optimum position. So what is the correct way to go about finding this optimum placing?

rule of thumb : sight a line from tip of mast to the bottom of mast base. this chord is your reference, at the point where it passes the boom, your front line should be about a fist width or so behind it. works for alot of sails. for really large rigs, go slightly further back. second harness line position should be less than shoulder width behind the front line placed as above. what's the logic behind this? no idea, just something i've observed in sails from 4.x to 10.x..

2) I sail a formula board(170L) with a 8.9m sail. I have no problem planning in footstraps and travelling beam reach when the wind is strong. However when the wind isn't strong enough and I am forced to point downwind or broadreach, I am unable to point the board by using foot pressure or harness weight. Instead I have to move the mast slightly forward to point the board downwind. I know this is not the correct way.. so what is?? I mean, how do you steer using foot pressure??

formula boards are steered by all 3 especially in lighter air, so doesnt sound to me you are doing anything wrong at all. in light air, especially when gybing with big sails you do use the rig a fair bit to help turn the board. foot pressure comes in when the board is really skimming in a full plane nicely powered up.

3) When I see the pros and oldtimers planning, their masts are always raked back and the bottom of the sail almost or already touching the board. I am unable to achieve this leh. Is this position the result of just hiking out all the way and the sail/mast will automatically move into this position??
When I attempt to move the mast back when planning in order to achieve the sail/mast position, I inevitably point upwind and end up losing power...

this is a consequence of sheeting in incorrectly, not in raking back per se. firstly if the sail is unstable or badly rigged this is hard to achieve. extra back hand pressure (not enough outhaul) or heavy front hand (underdownhauled or overpowered) would make it hard to do.

you are turning upwind because you are pulling the rig to you and putting too much weight on the rail too soon, thereby effectively carving upwind (when you dont want to).

what you are facing is cured by several small things being fixed, you will just have to kill them off one by one, start with rigging, line position, then foot position, squaring your body to the sail etc.  hope this helps.