Why some sailors are so fast?

[<WannaSailFast>]

I hope this is not the most stupid question ask on this forum but why are some sailors so fast? When I am planing how come people like TC, Sukdev & Meng etc can overtake like I am not moving?

So can you guys share your secrets?

[<FAT>]

Cant speak for Meng, but TC has years of experience, as for Sukdev and a few others "fat is fast" as they say

[<WannaSailFast>]

Sorry Mr Fat your answer dont make sense. If fat is fast then some of the 100kg ang moh should be super fast.

From what I can see all 3 of these guy got a few thing in common::
: use very high boom, Baii's boom I think I need a ladder to hook in.
: very fussy about rigging, I see Meng's harness line set up is quite unique
: all 3 are strong cos when really windy they really fly.
: all 3 have very good gybe, can plane out of gybe, the so called fatties can only make a big splash at the gybe.

What I want to know is::
: how should I sail the board? any special tips?
: why are some sailors slow, whats wrong?
: how to set up gear to go faster.

No more stupid answer please.

[P.J.]

Fat is fast is correct but put explained in a rather crude way. I think he means a HEAVY sailor has a speed advantage provided his technique is correct.

[<slow/fast....its rela]

one must be very specific.

Fast.....race or drag race?

fast in drag race NOT = to race bcos race involve upwind, downwind, turning etc.

Lets talk about drag race-basically straight line race-because race is very complicating.

To be fast in drag race you must:

a.   Have a solid equipment... that,s mean deep
     pocket...

     beginers board vs race board
     carbon boom vs aluminium boom
     freeride vs race sail

     The answer as to which one is faster is  
     obviouse, isn,t it.

b.   Tuneing of equipment
     pls refer to the various fantastic postings
     in this website

C.   Tecnique and Guts

     you will never be fast if your feeling is
     is very comfortable during a certain
     contitions. You must have the ability to deal
     with the sort of eqments that make u feel
     slightly overpowered in the same conditios.
     Pleas, not overhelmly overpowered.

During the drag race , the wind conditions keep changing as nothing is perfect in the resl world.
As a result, you and friend may take turn to be faster.

Its so unscientific to say who is faster.

The only way to know is to fix a speedomter(if itis possible???) in your board so you know you have touched 55 km/hr before in your life before.

I personally think that no matter how daring i am ( yes, you have to be daring here as the posssibity of hitting the plastic bags in the water is not zero. Be prepared for a spectacular wipeout.), I have not touched the 50 km/hr mark in any of the local wind conditions.

ANYONE CARE TO DECLARE THAT HE Or SHE HAS TOUCHED 60 km/hr BEFORE IN Sinagpore.

In conclusion, please just enjoy the elements of  windsurfing(wind, water and freedom)  even if someone " chat you"...it means overtaking you in Hokkien.

Of course to be able to go fast is a real bonus as you will never get book for speeding in wind surfing.

[sukhdev]

ok a subject very close to my heart. your observations are astutue so I'll share my views.

Rigging:

absolutely key. A fast sail feels slippery. Most sailors here rig sails with relatively little downhaul and deep drafts. The "pull" you feel on this type of rigging is actually drag.Take a look at my article on rigging the retro & you will get the idea.

Rig setup:

there is a "triangle of power" defined by the fin, mast foot position and boom height. The more you spread this triangle apart the more power you have and the less control. On wave boards my booms are low, mast foot is back, fin is placed forward cos I want to turn at a moment's notice. On race boards I spread everything out till its almost uncomfortable.

Sheeting in:
You CANT sheet in with your arms. You have to set up your harness lines so that your body weight does the sheeting in as well as keeps the rig stable.

Stance:
feet trim the hull, just lightly lifting with both feet, toes pointed. Upper body holds the rig steady. Lower back, hips, legs, drive the fin.

Keeping still:

fast sailors rarely move around on the board. Rig is held steady while a smooth path is picked through the water. Picking the line through the water sometimes is the key differentiator when its windy and rough.

Hull tuning:
Mast foot should be between 134 to 140cm from tail (most modern boards). Footstraps - the further back and the wider you spread them the more you can drive the board.

Harness lines:
most lines here are too short, too far forward and too wide.

I'd suggest starting with rigging. Get a good sailor to rig for you. Get used to this rigging then start experimenting with the "triangle of power". At the same time try your stance.

Fins fins fins fins - its simply not possible to overrate how important these are.

as the last poster said, mental attitude is key, to me the key test of speed is not blasting around but racing, where you have to perform consistently under pressure.

Lastly you can put a speedometer on your board. For about a year I used a Garmin eTrex GPS unit to log my speed. These devices are remarkably accurate. Most racing yachts now use GPS to not just navigate but measure absolute boat speed. I'll be reviewing one such new device in January.

60km per hour is 32knots, very easily possible on a modern ultra light slalom hull in windy conditions especially off the wind. Done that. The real skill however is in light air where you are running on apparent wind, ie going faster than wind speed. If you can plane in 7 knots, you are doing probably close to 15 knots and this is where you see the difference between sailors, either at the very low end, or when its very windy.

Most of all you have the passion and interest to have made some very astute observations. I'd be happy to pace with you and help you speed up (if you own up who you are!).

As for body weight, there have been very very fast light sailors before, the likes of Manolo Barlett, Eric Thieme, Raphael Salles come to mind. Alex Aguerra is relatively small and I've seen him pace Buzianis during training in Maui.

Most of all its not about who you are faster than, its about how you can be faster than yourself.

[<slow/fast....its rela]

Hi Sukhdev

I am not suspicios about the validity of GPS speedometer. Anyone who has a speedometer attached on mountainbike knows how scarry it is to go at 60 km/hr and even a minor mistake will render you a " Superman."

In Singapore, the coditions in which u achieve 60km/hr must be choppy or worst than choppy as I like to call the sea washing machine when the wind is really honking.

Bjion struggled to break unsucessfully the 90 km/hr barrier a few months ago in FLAT water.

From  that perspective, it is interesting to hear your experience in 60 km/hr.

More importantly, what is the highest record you hv achieved according to your GPS meter.

I do not have the numbers. When I am pushing my limit to go VERY VERY fast the feelings is joy, satisfaction and of course fear. Fearfull of what the consequences will be if i commit a mistake at " that" speed.

[<slow/fast....its rela]

Oops! forget to mention another unforgettable and wish to have more kind of feelings.

IE

...downning a few glasses of cool good beer after that fearful speeding session. Pls, good beer ....not any beer.

[sukhdev]

As it gets windier, it gets harder to go fast. When i used the GPS in Maui on my 49cm/4.9kg Rogue wave needle with a 5.0 Nitro I was not hitting much higher speeds than with a 6.3 on a 54cm/5.2kg rogue wave slalom. At some point the apparent wind stuff seems to work less and less and other factors (drag of various kinds?) comes in, not to mention that sail and board control problems get magnified in 35 knots.

Its interesting that the most efficent sailing seems to happen in the 15 knot or so range in flast water, there have been several reports of people doing 2x real wind.

I'm getting a new GPS soon, this one comes with very sophisticated analysis software designed for sailing. My main reason for being so interested in speed measuring is its the only way to be SURE that rigging or fin or technique changes make a real difference.

By the way the Garmin eTrex is quite cheap (SGD175?) but be careful, although its advertised as waterproof, its really only splashproof.

Get one, you will be suprised what it tells you..for example...I did a test in light wind with a 9.0 and 10.4.

I could plane on both, VMG (velocity made good) upwind was better with the 10.4 but on the reach once planing the difference between the 2 sail sizes in terms of speed was tiny (barely a knot). Downwind speed the larger sail had a much bigger difference.

I hope to publish sailing tracks once my new stuff is in.

[<slow/fast....its rela]

Hi sukhdev

From your quick response I sincerely believe that making money is the SECONDARY motive( not the prime motive) of why you involed in dealing in winsurfing equipments.

I presume that there is a communication breakdown between  2 of us here. When I ask about achieving that 60 km/hr, I mean achieving  it in Singapore. If you achieved it in Maui, I am ofcourse not surprised at all. I will not be surprised even if it is above 70 km/hr in Maui.

The plausible solution to the " splash proof only" German GPS is to place it in a water proof moblephone bag as Meng should know better because one of the PA guys( It is ROM, if I am not wrong.... a lovable young guy dealing in Aircon) has saved him the misery of equipment failure.

Please keep all of us informed about the measurements of your new " toy"  as I am sure that all of us would like to know the exact speed achievable locally. Unconfirmed sources told me that the speed test in Bintan did not managed to break the 60 km/hr barrier. Well, I must admit that I might be wrong.

Last but not least, Mr Lee from PA is seriously keen in the Hypersonic as he has test drive the one that PJ owns. Believe me, he is not asking for the price for fun as he is one of the lucky few who could afford the luxury of Windsurfing during weekdays because he is having his own business.

From the bottom of my heart, thank you for bring in such fresh air in the windsurfing industry of Singapore as I know how die hard they are as they even risk teir life in Thunderstorm. If anyone of you think that they are unemployed and do not mind killing themselves then you are wrong. This is so because they are pilot and businessman among them. If i am not wrong, your insurance prenium is higher if you tell them that you are a windsurfer. Please be honest so as to avoid future conflicks.

[sukhdev]

Thanks for your kind words..I dont think there is a communication breakdown as I was referring to speed done in Singapore.

The speed measurement in Bintan was held in horrible conditions, very light wind with most sailors not even bothering to do the run.The real test of speed in bintan is the long speed course (one gybe) thats run outside the bay, this can be a very challenging experience in strong winds.

The only time I've ever hit that speed locally is on a downwind run on my all time favorite slalom board with I think a 6.6RX1. This is a Rogue wave custom, 54cm wide but ultra light..about 5.0kg when new. Actually chop can HELP in a speed run if the angle is just right as anyone doing deep downwind sailing on formula boards would know.

You are absolutely right that speed is relative, sometimes the feeling of speed can be more than its actually reality and sometimes the reverse...one of the most lovable things about the hyper is its "effortless" speed. I revived my GPS efforts mainly because of the hyper; hopefully in the next few weeks the measurement toys will arrive and we will know what speeds the hyper is capable of.

Right now based purely on my "feel" I'm hitting higher speeds on the reach with a 7.5 on the hyper than I would with a 10 on my formula..again this is just a feel..will be interesting to actually measure it.
 
 [ 29. December 2002, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: sukhdev ]

[<Rookee>]

What would be the top priority to do if I want to improve my speed? I am quite new, can plane & can use harness, gybing 50% only.

[<painintheass>]

sailin fast? purest forms of cock n' bull mate

[<TauPowSian>]

I doubt if your Singapore speed claims are true - no more BIRD talk please...

Talk is free.

[sukhdev]

yes, talk is free, but GPS tracks should be interesting. I'll post them as soon as my new kit is in and anyone interested in testing their speed will be welcome to borrow the GPS unit.

Its pretty easy on modern boards to get up to the 30 knot mark..look at G Gesner's speed in light winds in borocay. After that its a different ball game, each knot is harder and harder..otherwise the 44knot record would have been broken long ago.